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Offline Tatoosh  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 12:29:56 PM(UTC)
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Part of my budget upgrade on my older system is adding an SSD drive for the operating system and taking the existing 350gb HDD and using that for data storage. The upside, at least in my imagination, is a bit faster computer and one that is more portable when I move. I can leave most everything behind but the SSD or maybe the SSD & HDD which I will take with me for my new system, saving all my old files and games "in place"

Am I correct in assuming that the SSD and possibly the HDD installed on a new computer (mobo, etc etc) should work properly though I would probably need to update some drivers? Or is it more likely that I will need to do a fresh install of Win 7 Pro (64 bit) on the SDD and then appropriate drivers for GPU and so on?

The plan, as it sits now, is to purchase a new Crucible M550 SDD (256gb) for $80, get it shipped to m, then to copy my current Operating System partition (C: drive) to it. Next I'll back up the second partition (D: drive) on the current HDD, reformat the HDD and re-install the files and folders to the HDD which will have the same drive designator as before.

A number of questions have occurred to me.

1) I've read that the SDD may die prematurely due to frequent read write operations and that those operations might be better pointed toward a HDD. That seems kind of counter-intuitive to me, since the idea for the SDD in the first place is speedier performance, so why point something that must be done frequently to a slower drive? But I figure I just as well ask here than rest comfortably in the bathwater of lukewarm confusion.

2) Some folders/directories that seem to grow exponentially with time might best be directed toward the HDD, My Documents, Downloads, Photos, and Music seem likely candidates to stuff into the "data" side HDD and leave more room on the faster SDD drive. I have heard that Windows 7 Professional (and others) can be configured so that those directories normally found on C: can be moved elsewhere. Any serious drawbacks to this that I am not aware of? Or any specific folders that should - or should not - be included?

Offline Blackhawk8100  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 12:44:57 PM(UTC)
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Congrats on the updates! Below I am answering your questions, but take an and all answers with a grain of salt and do some research yourself! It is fun that way!

Q1: Although not positive, your concerns of a SSD failing because of an increased number of read/write operations is far-fetched. This I assume is a worry from when SSDs first came out. The technology has progressed quite far and shouldn't be an issue any longer.

Q2: I don't believe there will be any drawbacks. It would not make sense if there were, so you can attempt it. It shouldn't break anything, so you could run tests yourself and see what happens, shouldn't hurt.

Offline acarzt  
#3 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 12:57:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tatoosh Go to Quoted Post

Am I correct in assuming that the SSD and possibly the HDD installed on a new computer (mobo, etc etc) should work properly though I would probably need to update some drivers? Or is it more likely that I will need to do a fresh install of Win 7 Pro (64 bit) on the SDD and then appropriate drivers for GPU and so on?

The plan, as it sits now, is to purchase a new Crucible M550 SDD (256gb) for $80, get it shipped to m, then to copy my current Operating System partition (C: drive) to it. Next I'll back up the second partition (D: drive) on the current HDD, reformat the HDD and re-install the files and folders to the HDD which will have the same drive designator as before.

A number of questions have occurred to me.

1) I've read that the SDD may die prematurely due to frequent read write operations and that those operations might be better pointed toward a HDD. That seems kind of counter-intuitive to me, since the idea for the SDD in the first place is speedier performance, so why point something that must be done frequently to a slower drive? But I figure I just as well ask here than rest comfortably in the bathwater of lukewarm confusion.

2) Some folders/directories that seem to grow exponentially with time might best be directed toward the HDD, My Documents, Downloads, Photos, and Music seem likely candidates to stuff into the "data" side HDD and leave more room on the faster SDD drive. I have heard that Windows 7 Professional (and others) can be configured so that those directories normally found on C: can be moved elsewhere. Any serious drawbacks to this that I am not aware of? Or any specific folders that should - or should not - be included?

1) This is not really an issue anymore. Yes, it is true that after X number of writes, that sector on the SSD will no longer be accessible. But the number is so high, that it is HIGHLY unlikely that you will ever reach it.

2)This is possible and easy to do. I have done it before. The folders you would want to move are documents, music, movies, pictures, and maybe even desktop. The drawback is... which I have experienced first hand... It is possible for the computer to boot without recognizing or mounting the HDD, or due to timing, the HDD isn't seen which can cause a number of different annoying scenarios... You system will boot into windows and it will appear as though all of your files have been misplaced or gone missing. Windows will create duplicate copies of said folders and things will get screwy... Or windows will boot, not find the HDD, and it will crash and report errors of profile corruption which could to you needing to restore your PC.

You have other questions in your post. But, in order to answer them, i need to know:

What are the specs of your current PC? Be specific, MB model, etc.

What is your budget?

Offline Tatoosh  
#4 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 1:05:06 PM(UTC)
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Blackhawk, thanks - I was a bit puzzled when I saw a comment somewhere else about the SSD dying prematurely due to high read/write usage. But if it iwas an industry known problem, I figured I should ask rather than assume. I expect to leave most of that sort of thing alone. So question 1 is now off the table unless someone has something new to add about it.

Question 2 remains and I will give it a try, or sit with my more tech-talented friends as they try. I've read about it but not run into anyone that has done it.

So the unnumbered question remains. Next year, when I pick up and return to the wonderful rinse cycle of the Northwest USA, will popping my SDD & HDD into the maw of a new computer (case/mobo/gpu/and such) be fraught with hazard or more like a chocolate eclair that can be a little sticky but even that is a fairly pleasant experience?

Offline acarzt  
#5 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 1:13:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tatoosh Go to Quoted Post
Blackhawk, thanks - I was a bit puzzled when I saw a comment somewhere else about the SSD dying prematurely due to high read/write usage. But if it iwas an industry known problem, I figured I should ask rather than assume. I expect to leave most of that sort of thing alone. So question 1 is now off the table unless someone has something new to add about it.

Question 2 remains and I will give it a try, or sit with my more tech-talented friends as they try. I've read about it but not run into anyone that has done it.

So the unnumbered question remains. Next year, when I pick up and return to the wonderful rinse cycle of the Northwest USA, will popping my SDD & HDD into the maw of a new computer (case/mobo/gpu/and such) be fraught with hazard or more like a chocolate eclair that can be a little sticky but even that is a fairly pleasant experience?

See my answers above buddy!

My concerns are that with a 350GB HDD, your PC JUST MIGHT be old enough that it doesn't have any SATA ports... or a limited number, AND the HDD could be using IDE.

If you DO have Sata ports available, i'm wondering if they are SATA 1, 2 or 3. And if your HDD IS IDE, then you will have to get an adapter (and hope it works) or you might need to consider getting an SSD large enough to take it's place.

Offline Tatoosh  
#6 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 1:23:07 PM(UTC)
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acarzt, thank you for the reassurance on the SSD reliability question. I may have run into someone's post from the way back machine.

Now your comments about the SDD/HDD redirect on commonly high content folders chills me to the marrow! I can quite easily imagine what you describe and my less than steady response if it did. Bleh! I hate seeing my operating hard drive fill up and being the lazy sort of user, I thought that pointing them to a higher capacity drive would rid me of the Shift and click to move chore. Hmm, can a Raid setup have the OS on a SSD and the files on number of HDD's that will stripe and parity? Never ever played with Raid so I don't know much about the parameters and if it has to be all the drives.

Even at that, the Raid quesiton is all theoretical and would well beyond what I can do now or even after I initially arrive in Washington State. Only for a future build - probably 2 years out or so.

Budget? I'm thinking of a $450 to $600 computer, once I arrive and we have a roof over our heads and wheels to get around. I expect to run Windows 7 Pro 64 bit on the next machine, obviously if I'm dragging my proposed SSD/HDD along.

My current system: Asus P5N73-AM (socket 775), 4 gig ram, Intel Core Duo E7300 @ 2.66Hz, GTX 660 ti (expected upgrade that may travel with me to USA), HDD 298GB Seagate ST3320620AS ATA Device (SATA) - sorry thought it was 350gb. My bad.

Offline acarzt  
#7 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 1:46:14 PM(UTC)
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In order to use RAID all drives in the RAID need to be the same. For example 2 SSDs with a capacity of 100GB in a raid 0 or 1.

The exception to this rule is JBOD, which we aren't even going to talk about and you should not even think about.

You can have a situation where you have 2 SSDs in a RAID 1, and an HDD that is NOT in the RAID. You can also have multiple different RAID setups in a single PC.

However, due to the expense of the additional hardware, you probably won't be considering this.

If you want to know more about RAID, the wikipedia article has a little of good information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Also, I know I made it sound very scary to map your folders to a secondary drive... But the issues that I mentioned, do not happen often, and there is no data lost. It just becomes temporarily unavailable, and sometimes just rebooting the PC will resolve the issue. But you need to be aware of what can happen so that you can determine for yourself if you are willing to put up with the potential headache.

Also, for budget, I am asking specifically for your SSD budget.

Offline Tatoosh  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 2:04:03 PM(UTC)
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Ah, okay! I was just over in Wikipedia reading that article. GMTA, eh? I was actually thinking the cheap HDD setup in Raid configuration for data storage. The SDD all by its lonely for my OS and maybe a back up SDD that could keep an image of the OS SDD just in case it went pear shaped, as the British say. I am not sure what they have against pears, but that's for another day. I dunno, my brain kind of boggles out at the prospect of such redundancy on a low to mid level game machine. But I do keep a lot of recipes and production data for my bacon and sausager projects, so from that aspect it might well be worth the fail safe setup.

My SSD budget today is $80 on a Crucible SSD and $8 for shipping to the Philippines. I think 300gb to 500gb are around $50 bucks or less, the 300gb was definitely less, my 1tb drive having catastrophically failed, I replaced it with a what I had in my pocket at the time. Once I settle down in the States, get my little bacon thing going, the wife off to work, things should be a bit more flexible and I'll look at 500gb SDD which are in the $160 or so range? I could probably even do a pair of them as needed for Raid or backup.

I can put up with the potential headache if I know the way to recover provided that is not some very elaborate or difficult set of dance steps. The reboot solution sounds ideal. That failing, what sort of recovery would I be faced with? Not like finding MH370, I hope.

Offline acarzt  
#9 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 2:25:14 PM(UTC)
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Not sure where you are finding these amazing prices on your SSDs lol

But I just noticed you're looking at a 256GB ssd already... You COULD possibly survive on the SSD alone for awhile, at least until you get a little more budget to add some more storage. As far as your bacon trade secrets... You might want to get those backed up to multiple sources, thumb drive(s), DVDs, external hdd, an offline hdd, etc.

As for the fix to the issues i've described. 9 times out of 10 the fix is a reboot. That 10th time though, could required to to use a system restore point in windows which will recover your registry and fix the drive mapping.

Offline acarzt  
#10 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 2:26:07 PM(UTC)
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I also forgot to mention that I expect payment in the form of bacon, for this great advice i'm giving you lol
Offline Tatoosh  
#11 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 2:53:09 PM(UTC)
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Thanks, the system restore point is not such a complex and daunting task that I would find myself cowering under the sheets when faced with it. So that makes the SDD/HDD approach sound a tad bit more do-able.

Prices on SSD drives are taken off of eBay. The Samsung and Crucial 500gb prices show up in the $170 to $220 range I guess. I was a bit low in my earlier post. I tend to look for sellers that have good reputation percentages (98% or higher) and numerous transactions, so they have a reputation to protect. Reputation disputes are strongly in the favor of customers on eBay so it is the one tool we have to try and get an honest deal.

Dang, I'd love to share the bacon with ya! Sad that you are in Texas in terms of shipping. I do a basic dry cured, hickory smoked bacon, but play around with pepper bacon, Cajun spice bacon, and will play with a vodka - honey stinger bacon next month.

Thank you very much for your excellent advice!

Offline acarzt  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 3:04:02 PM(UTC)
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Let me know when you make it to the States, i'll buy some bacon from you! lol

Just to give you an idea of what it takes to map your folders in windows check this out:

http://windows.microsoft...w-location#1TC=windows-7

ALSO, before you do ANY of that, you need to make sure you take ownership all the folders on your storage drive. This is ESPECIALLY important when you are working with a drive that was either transplanted from another system or was previously a boot drive.

If you start with the drive freshly formatted... it's not an issue. But if you don't get the permissions and ownership straightened out before you start moving files to it, you would end up with other headaches and annoyances :-)

Just hit me up through PM on here when you're ready to make the move and i'll make sure it goes smooth for you ;-)

Offline Blackhawk8100  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 4:57:39 PM(UTC)
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What Is going here? xD It looks nice, but Wikipedia is a bad resource you know :P
Offline acarzt  
#14 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 5:20:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Blackhawk8100 Go to Quoted Post
What Is going here? xD It looks nice, but Wikipedia is a bad resource you know :P

Wikipedia is a bad resource if you intend on using it as a reference in an academic writing.

But wikipedia, in general, is a GREAT resource. And being an expert on RAID myself, I can tell you that the information in that particular article is accurate ;-)

Offline Blackhawk8100  
#15 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 8:04:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: acarzt Go to Quoted Post
Wikipedia is a bad resource if you intend on using it as a reference in an academic writing.

But wikipedia, in general, is a GREAT resource. And being an expert on RAID myself, I can tell you that the information in that particular article is accurate ;-)

Alrighty, I can't win xD

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