Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline aznium  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2005 6:32:18 PM(UTC)
aznium


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: U.S.Minor Outlying Islands, Massachusetts

Dual Xeon vs Dual Opteron

Which one is better?
Considering that dual cores are almost out, and they probably will cost a ton of money, should i wait for them?

Xeon Benefits
-HT
-More L2 Cache
-Higher Core Clock Speed

Opteron Benefits
-More L1 Cache
-Built in DDR Controller
-Higher FSB Speed

Dual Xeon Motherboards are also more expensive than Dual Opteron motherboards rite?

So would u rather buy a dual xeon + mb or dual opteron + mb or wait till dual cores?
Offline SilentSpectre  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2005 6:49:08 PM(UTC)
SilentSpectre


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,345
Location: Other, Other

It depends on what you're going to do with them, as both have their performance ups and downs. Once they go dual core that'll give a dually xeon 8 virtual cpus from it's 4 real ones, and that's a lot of thread munching power, if the bus doesn't get too saturated first. On AMD's side, the existing Opteron does very well in a great number of tasks, and it's bus is much less likely to be saturated with the addition of the second core, which should enable it to play a bit of catch up to intel in those benchmarks it's good at, while intel should (in theory) fall behind AMD in benchmarks AMD leads in because the xeon will come clocked at much lower speeds than existing models to fit into thermal/power profiles.

So again it's totally task dependant, but on the intel side we'd have to wait for their totally new platform and cpu, while on AMD side we just need a few dual core cpus to test out.
Offline aznium  
#3 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2005 7:06:11 PM(UTC)
aznium


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: U.S.Minor Outlying Islands, Massachusetts

im planning to use the rig as an high-end desktop/server

uses:
-game (cs) server (expect max 8-10 users on same time)
-lan file server (around 2 users on same time)
-custom java web file server
-web server (haha. im not gonna expect much visitors...just doing it for fun)
-cvs server (2-3 coders on max)
-normal gamming of course (not very graphic intense)
-intense programming stuff (i cant stand to wait for my java/c++ prorgams to compile)

so my loads arent THAT high...u mite ask if im stupid and im why im going for dual cpus....cause i am stupid. . and theyre not that expensive now ... two opteron 242 costs around 300-400CND...only mb are a bit expensive

also the initial dual-core xeons will have the HT feature removed (if im not mistaken)...so only 4 virtual procs

do u think im better off getting an exisiting intel chip with HT or an exisiting AMD64 chip?

and if i do go dual cpus...im gonna be runnin multiple oses of course...would be a waste running windows only...
Offline InfinityzeN  
#4 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2005 10:12:53 PM(UTC)
InfinityzeN


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,248
Man
Location: Florida

As you ramp up the number of CPUs, the Xeon falls behind the Opteron in perfromance, due to system design limitations of the Xeon. If your wondering what those are, it is mainly the FSB, which has trouble keeping one P4 fully feed all the time. Now double or more what it needs to feed without increasing its since and you'll get where this is going. The Opterons on the other hand each have their own ram and can freely acess each others ram with only a mild hit. The quad Opteron blows away pretty much anything Intel is putting out, but we're talking 20 grand systems there.

Unless your compiling stuff or working with an insane number of threads, I would suggest the Opteron system. You game, lan, and web server stuff would most likely run faster on the Opteron rig. The coding stuff would be faster on the Xeon. This assumes that your using compareable level parts. The Opteron 242's are equal to Xeon's running about 2.6 Ghz. The 250's like the ones I put in my dual system at work are comparable to the Xeon 3.6 Ghz.

Oh yea, haven't priced dual Xeon mobo's for awhile, but the dual Opteron boards run around $400 US.
Offline aznium  
#5 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2005 10:42:27 PM(UTC)
aznium


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: U.S.Minor Outlying Islands, Massachusetts

thx for reply...

i was thinking along the same lines...

however arent the 250 opterons something like ~200CND each ... so isnt it better to go for the 242 or 244

and of course every1 is dreaming of a quad/8 opteron system.... lol i want a couple of those 8-series opterons

also one more q. is it possible to OC a dual opteron system? (easily)

i think i can pull a dual opteron system with 1gig ram and 200gig hd for under 1kCND
Offline InfinityzeN  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2005 4:11:51 PM(UTC)
InfinityzeN


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,248
Man
Location: Florida

Make that a 2GB system. Each of the Opterons have to have their own ram.
Offline SilentSpectre  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2005 6:37:04 PM(UTC)
SilentSpectre


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,345
Location: Other, Other

Depends on the board Infin - some of the cheap boards like the (or one of?) the dually opteron boards from MSI auto routes the memory requests (yeah it's sad, but true..but saves a few bucks...kinda like when packard bell was like: "l2 cache for another $15 per mobo...why would customers need l2 caches? Pentium 90's run just fine with L1 cache thank you"...)
Offline InfinityzeN  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:23:35 AM(UTC)
InfinityzeN


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,248
Man
Location: Florida

WTF!? They actually totally throw out AMD's system standard and rig some half [censored]d thing to make it work like that? That would totally ruin the performance of the Opteron since it comes from low lats on the memory and cache. The guys at MSI need to be shot for that one.

Aznium, I would *STRONGLY* suggest you stay away from any board that functions like that if you go with an Opteron. Total waste of the system.
Offline SilentSpectre  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:14:50 AM(UTC)
SilentSpectre


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,345
Location: Other, Other

Yeah, I'd have to pretty much suggest the same thing too. I'm not sure what arenas would really benefit from that, but there are a few companies on the loose doing it. You might save $100-$200 but you'd be crippling your performance in a big way.
Offline aznium  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:26:37 PM(UTC)
aznium


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: U.S.Minor Outlying Islands, Massachusetts

thx for the replies guys...

hmm...which motheboards do u guys recommend then? i;ve been looking at some of the tyan ones...they have quite a lot of functionality too...do u think theyre ok?
Offline InfinityzeN  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:58:38 PM(UTC)
InfinityzeN


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,248
Man
Location: Florida

I really like Tyan mobos. If they made desktop boards they would be the brand I'd stick in my home computer. Grade "A" bang bang.
Offline SilentSpectre  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:46:03 PM(UTC)
SilentSpectre


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,345
Location: Other, Other

Tyan does/has made consumer level SOHO and home user boards for a while - check they're site out (www.tyan.com) I think they're refered to as the trinity and the tomcat lines. They started doing this a few years back with an athlon board, so I think they might be either all AMD stuff or at least with a bias towards AMD products on that level. This might have been part of them hopping onboard with the 760/760mpx chipset earlier than anyone else (not that people were clammoring to adopt it back in the day).
Offline InfinityzeN  
#13 Posted : Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:13:28 PM(UTC)
InfinityzeN


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,248
Man
Location: Florida

Just took a look and pretty much almost all of their stuff is ether server, workstation, or rack. They do have one, count em one, board that supports 939 chips and it is a vanillia NF4 board. They also have two P4 non-rack boards, one on the 875P chipset and one on the 845GV chipset. Oh yea, and a Geode Flex chipset you could use for a SFF PC, but I don't see anyone using a Geode chip for a PC anytime soon.

On to their NF4/939 chipset. It actually looks pretty good except that it is just a basic NF4 (no Ultra or SLI) with, get this, an ATI Integrated graphics solution. An ATI Rage XL to be exact. Now thats funny, an Nvidia chipset with intergrated ATI graphics.

*Edited for easier reading*
Offline RFIRE15  
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:26:10 PM(UTC)
RFIRE15


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/22/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,100
Location: United States, Maryland

If only Clee were around to shead some light on this. He was the man when it came to topics like these. I should send his ass an e-mail
Offline aznium  
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:54:32 PM(UTC)
aznium


Rank: Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/21/2005(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: U.S.Minor Outlying Islands, Massachusetts

thx for replies guys...


right now im looking at the tiger and thunder k8w ... sigh tiger is a bit cheaper...

http://tyan.com/products/html/opteron.html
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.