They didn't lose the war on piracy. They lost the war they were waging on consumers directly.

A war Microsoft lost LONG ago. Remember, when it comes to tech, anything is possible.

DeathPaladin,

You're drawing an incorrect conclusion as far as the root crack is concerned. The other hacks may fall fairly into the 'anything is possible' category, but the private key discovery is possible because Sony f*cked up in a massive way. If the private key was still secure my understanding is that the other flaws would be serious but potentially patchable.

I think Sony has possibly made a major miscalculation here. I wouldn't be surprised to see them lose if the EFF or someone else bankrolls the hackers' defense.

Mistake #1: Pursuing this when Sony themselves initiated it via the removal of OtherOS/Linux. That gave the hackers tools a "reasonable non-infringing use." (i.e. to restore the functionality that was advertised at the sale of the console).

Sony once found themselves on the very opposite side of this argument during the days of Betamax vs. MPAA (and won!)

Mistake #2: Suing people that have repeatedly spoken out against piracy, instead of people actually engaged in piracy. These people don't seem to be directly responsible for any piracy whatsoever.  Smith & Wesson isn't liable for murders with their guns, nor should these guys be liable for misuse of their tools.

Mistake #3: Naming members of fail0verflow in the suit. fail0verflow members are in the EU and therefore not subject to the DMCA.

I can't wait for AsbestOS or some other project to release a signed package. I'll be able to boot my PS3 from a signed image - that doesn't suffer from Sony's artificial hypervisor restrictions on the RSX, and finally update my firmware from 3.20 to a version that allows me to play online again.

We'll just have to see if "justice" is done.

A lawsuit against hacking by the company that brought us one of the most widely propagated secret root-kit viruses that the world has ever seen.

One has to laugh at them,........Ha-Ha!

True realneil. It's easy to forget the rootkit fiasco Sony perpetrated against Windows owners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

They appear to be working under the impression that anything they do is legal, no matter how blatantly wrong, and that anything a user does to assert control over his own system/media is automatically illegal. Apparently some EULA that practically no one ever read (and which almost certainly contains things not legal in all jurisdictions) trumps common sense and legal rights.

3vi1,

"They appear to be working under the impression that anything they do is legal, no matter how blatantly wrong, and that anything a user does to assert control over his own system/media is automatically illegal."

Let's not forget that a conservative reading of the DMCA encourages this interpretation. The efficacy of a copyright protection system is considered irrelevant when calculating whether or not a hacker has broken the law. The mere *presence* of something the company can claim constitutes copy protection is, in theory, all they need--even if they simply did an A = Z alphabet reversal.

I suspect that Sony might be found to have violated some US consumer protection laws but the DMCA does not make allowances for hackers attempting to restore machine capabilities. I think Sony will ultimately prevail in court--not that they'll ever recover what they'll lose in piracy.

For the most part I agree with you, and think the DMCA is the worst thing Clinton ever signed. I slightly disagree on one point though:

>> the DMCA does not make allowances for hackers attempting to restore machine capabilities.

Section 1201 has seven exemptions. The three that I think are relevant are:

- Reverse engineering in order to develop interoperable programs; [1201(f)]: I believe this could be construed to include homebrew apps.

- Encryption Research; [1201(g)]: Definitely part of what they were doing.

- Security Testing [1201(j)]: Also what they were doing.

Also, don't forget that there are other exemptions in there for legally obtained video games, and iPhone jailbreaking. It's not inconceivable that PS3 jailbreaking could get added as an exemption as a result of this case.

And on top of all this, as I said earlier.  The fail0verflow guys are in Europe.  The DMCA does not apply to them (another reason America should have fewer stupid rules/patents tying the hands of innovation).

I think Sony will ultimately prevail in court--not that they'll ever recover what they'll lose in piracy.

I don't have a shred of sympathy for them. I hope that they take a bath.

This situation being discussed doesn't affect me at all, because I quit buying Sony anything after the root-kit fiasco. I don't usually forgive or forget either. So if those jerks want loyalty, then they're gonna have to go out and buy a Dog.

3vi1,

True regarding Europe, though that's a loophole ACTA is supposed to close. I suspect Sony will do its best to make an example of GeoHot.

Why doesnt Sony just hire the guy. It seems he is better than their entire programming staff

DeathPaladin...how did Microsoft lose that war that you speak? Oh wait...I see...you are one of those social outcasts who thinks that everyone is like you when in fact, no one wants to live even one second of their lives like you. The VAST majority of people like Microsoft and hteir products

I think the reference to Microsoft here might be to WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage). This was their anti-piracy software which has failed in numerous ways, not the least of which has been to flag non-pirated copies of Windows as invalid -- with something on the order of 20% of WGA violations being false positives.

As far as I'm concerned, this would classify as a failure and in fact Microsoft is slowly giving up on this. Portions of their products and website that use to require WGA validation are going away. A good example is the MS Office download portion of microsoft.com, where recently WGA checks have been removed and Microsoft is now offering document templates without any restrictions.

Little stretch there paulkevin...its different when you have a team of programmers that develop literally millions of lines of code and (probably) one or two f-ed up on this particular crypto-function.

These hackers know how try and break code, not necessarily how to be expert-writers. Think of it this way, if you know how to rip apart or destroy a car engine, that doesn't necessarily mean you can put it back together in a good working order...

Sony's already running into problems with the suit: The judge says that "Sony has to show that George Hotz [...] has some connection to California if Sony is to claim damages for his work on the PS3."

Good luck on that.  As far as I know, George lives in New Jersey.  So much for Sony's tactic of suing out-of-state to cause financial duress to Hotz - they'll have to re-file in NJ.  If they file in any other location, particularly one with a history of stupidly defending IP like east-Texas, they'll prove they're douchebags.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/101329/20110114/sony-must-show-jurisdiction-over-hotz.htm