Guest
SilentSpectre
2005-03-17T07:30:54Z
Recap of the past few years:

AMD busts all over intel's P3 with their early Athlons.

Intel stomps AMD into submission starting with the early P4's and doesn't stop until AMD is grasping at straws with a 2.2ghz cpu (xp3200+) and trying vainly to compare it to intel's demonic 3.2ghz P4C. There are only a few benchmarks (Unreal for instance) that show the 2 cpus (And their respective platforms) on close footing.

AMD drops the 64 bit bomb, and it's really fast with 32 bit stuff too, intel scrambles to catch up but it's in almost a bad of a corner now as AMD was in a few years ago. Right now Intel's lead in areas it's dominated like video encoding is shrinking all the time, and the hope is that dual core is gonna save it.

But as I look at things, I'm not entirely convinced that's going to happen. In fact, I think it's going to get worse for intel, and here's why:

Sure, having 2 hyperthreading cores would seem to be a great idea for a heavily threaded task, but what about:
1) Speed. Intel's got a 3.2ghz Pentium D(ual core) on tap for this year as their best offering. And they're pppppppppprrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeesssssssssccccccccccooooooooootttttttttt based cores at that. AMD's been demoing 2.4ghz dual core units. That's almost a match for their top end FX chip at the moment.
2) Bus. Intel's got 2 cores competing for memory and most likely some of that valuable video and hard disk bandwidth - AMD has memory and all other I/O on seperate discrete channels, so it's not going to end up being a 3 way tug of war like it is on and intel platform.
3) Latency. AMD's cpus stand to have a lot less 'waiting' time than intel's thanks to having the integrated memory controller. When you're talking about multiple cpu's waiting on multiple threads, that might be a big thing.
4) Cost. AMD cpus are due to plug right into that nice little socket 939 we've been loving for a year or so now. Intel's dual core desktop and server cpus will BOTH be requiring a new platform change. It's not a performance issue in the most direct sense, but let's face it - the more money we have to spend on other things, the better - right?

So it'll be intersting to see how this stuff breaks down, but my guess is intel might lose it's last piece of high ground and be forced to either come up with something new, or throw up a better stop-gap than the pentium d. I can't help but think that they should have waited for dothan to hit the desktop prior to rebranding.
Sponsor
warlord
2005-03-17T09:55:05Z
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I'm how ever very interested in seeing some dual core folding action. Just a bit curious as to the potental that might have. But my question is. Is this going to be one of those it looks better on paper issues with dual core at first.? I for one think i will wait the first line out and wait for it to mature a little. I'm mean if the first round from either side is all that the next revision should be double damage

Fold on HotHardware!!!!
ceh4702
2005-03-23T11:17:44Z
Show me the benchmark that shows how much better a dual core processor is and why I should buy one. I wonder what kind of power requirement these processors will have.
Ne0rC
2005-03-23T11:47:59Z
Well, these things aren't out yet. And the software would have to be built to work with dual cores.
SilentSpectre
Jordan
  •  Jordan
  • 50.6% (Neutral)
  • Advanced Member
2005-03-23T22:40:10Z
Intel have ONCE again screwed up, this time with dual cores, by failing to realise/admit that the Pentium M is the best core they've ever had. Wake the f*ck up Intel!

To have a dual core Intel means a NEW Mobo for existing socket 775 owners whereas AMD's dual cores will fit in existing boards with a BIOS upgrade needed at the very most. It would be worth the socket change IF they switched to Pentium M based dual core but noooo. Instead their making the change do to thermal reasons i.e. current boards can't handle the heat.

How ARE they going to cool these things. Water cooling set-up as stock cooler i presume...
InfinityzeN
2005-03-23T22:56:03Z
I have to agree with Jordan on this one. Maybe not a Pentium M in its current form, but a next gen tuned and tweaked version would be perfect for dual and quad core chips.

And Silent Spectre, I can't read Italian but I got "Translate" for Firefox
SilentSpectre
2005-03-23T23:51:18Z
The P-M is a great design, and I think we've all come to realize that netburst was just another way to say "Duping customers with big numbers and not exactly performance" at least until much later in it's lifecycle before it was killed. Note that despite what the press people say at intel, pppppppppprrrrrrrrreeeeeeeesssssssssccccccccoooooooootttttttttttt is NOT netburst, anytime you rework the stages of an ALU it's a new core, those guys need to take a basic EE course. Of course if we could get them to take a basic EE course, they might interact with the rest of us and go "ohhh yeah, we totally forgot about the pentium m in a desktop" and get back to work on one of the best ideas they've had in a while.
InfinityzeN
2005-03-24T17:05:43Z
Hummmm... That'll be the day-ay-ay... that I die
Jordan
  •  Jordan
  • 50.6% (Neutral)
  • Advanced Member
2005-03-24T17:43:17Z
Silent PC Review had an article about Intel. Their Mobile development team is completely seperate from their desktop development team and not only that... they seem to be competing with each other and don't like to cross over into each others markets. How stupid is that? I think Intel is just too big for its own good! AMD seem to run things more efficiently on far lesser resources. Maybe that's why AMD have done better as of late. They can't afford to make big feck ups and actually THINK things through first.

I have to say I let my personal thoughgts get into this subject a little too much. As everyone knows I'm a silencing enthusiast and the perfect silencing CPU is out there. I am of course talking about the Pentium M. It just costs an arm and a leg for the boards (on top of the costs of the expensive CPUs, but those prices are expected) since Intel won't mass produce them and they all have non-standard heatsink mounting systems! I hate Intel for that.
SilentSpectre
2005-03-24T21:45:07Z
Jordan are you trying to say that too many chefs ruin the dish?
Jordan
  •  Jordan
  • 50.6% (Neutral)
  • Advanced Member
clee
  •  clee
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Member
2005-03-27T20:52:22Z
quote:

Originally posted by: Jordan
Silent PC Review had an article about Intel. Their Mobile development team is completely seperate from their desktop development team and not only that... they seem to be competing with each other and don't like to cross over into each others markets.........


Silent PC don't know all the details Jordan. The MPR ( mobile sction ) and the desktop section are under the same umbrella but it's a bit bit chaotic . I 'll refrrain from talkin' too much about it cuz I don't wanna get into troubles lol. But it's correct, they ALWAYS compete with each other despite the fact that certain parts of the development are crossed platforms.



quote:

Originally posted by: SilentSpectre
.....pppppppppprrrrrrrrreeeeeeeesssssssssccccccccoooooooootttttttttttt is NOT netburst, anytime you rework the stages of an ALU it's a new core, those guys need to take a basic EE course. Of course if we could get them to take a basic EE course,.......


hehe it's debatable buddy. Depends on the angle u're looking at it.
I can say it's still netburst because as a whole, Prescott is still based on the NetBurst . The ALU's staging levels have been changed and u got that right, but don't forget it's at the micro-architecural level. I'm sure we can argue back and forth for days lol.
btw gotta go, dinner time, remember we talked about the thunking problem last month w.r.t. EM64T, did u dig out that linky for me. ?
SilentSpectre
2005-03-28T06:49:38Z
No actually I didn't - my past few moths have been getting kinda busy- I'm on here about as much as you these days Maybe a hair more, but I get a few posts in my head and they just roll around in the back of my mind for a few weeks at a time. Things are getting more and more complex here, and I'm due to return stateside on an ongoing basis this summer if things go well.
clee
  •  clee
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Member
2005-03-28T22:17:04Z
quote:

Originally posted by: SilentSpectre
No actually I didn't - my past few moths have been getting kinda busy- I'm on here about as much as you these days......


argh....take it easy man. Actually I was here last night and tonight because it's Easter Holiday . Hoping to read some good stuffs from you hehe !!