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ramian
  •  ramian
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2004-08-08T00:17:06Z
Hi,
my present computer specifications are as follows:
P4 2.6C o/c 3.0Ghz (800Mhz FSB)
2x512 PC3200 DDR 400 TwinMOS RAM
nVidia FX5700U
etc...

I'm thinking of replacing my RAM due to serious stability reasons. I've already replaced these TwinMOS modules twice.

1. Anyway, if I'm going to overclock, should I get another PC3200 dual channel set or should I go higher (PC3500/PC4000 or higher)?

2. Also, how high can I go without the extra RAM speeds becoming redundant? Currently when I overclock, I've got to reduce the CPU:Memory ratio from 1:1 to 5:4 for a stable o/c at 3.0Ghz w FSB at 230Mhz and memory at 186Mhz. I know if I have higher rated RAM modules I can achieve a stable o/c at higher than 3.0Ghz while still keeping ratio at 1:1. I just wanna know what's the fastest RAM modules I should get for my setup.

3. Lastly, these are my choices. Would appreciate your opinion on any of these if you've used them. I want stability under overclock and very heavy usage. Well, cheap too...

PC3200:

KINGSTON HyperX 2x512MB Kit (Total:1GB/PC-3200/CAS-2) 400MHz DDR
-Code:KHX3200K2/1G (2 - 512MB) -@2-2-2-6-1 (CAS Latency 2) -400MHz (PC3200) -Aluminum heat spreader for thermal diffusion

GEIL Ultra Platinum PC3200/DDR400 Dual Channel Kit: 2 x 512MB
Model: GL1G3200DC - Hand Picked GeIL 5ns 32x8 Density DDR Chip. - Copper Heat Spreader. - CAS 2 6-3-3 @ DDR400 PC3200

Geil is about $20 cheaper than the Kingston.

PC3500:

KINGSTON HyperX 2x512MB Kit (Total:1GB/PC-3500/CAS-2)434MHz DDR
-Code:KHX3500K2/1G (2 - 512MB) -@2-3-3-7-1 (CAS Latency 2) -434MHz (PC3500) -Aluminum heat spreader for thermal diffusion

KINGSTON HyperX 2x512MB Kit (Total:1GB/PC-4000/CAS-3)500MHz DDR
-Code:KHX4000K2/1G (2 - 512MB) -@3-4-4-8-1 (CAS Latency 3) -500MHz (PC4000) -Aluminum heat spreader for thermal diffusion

Both these Kingston kits are the same price.

PC4000:

GEIL Ultra Platinum 1GB Kit (Total:2x512MB/PC-4000)500MHz DDR
GeIL 3.5ns 32x8 Density DDR Chip. - Lifetime Warranty - 184pin, Non-ECC, Un-buffered

CORSAIR TWIN-X 1GB (2x512MB/PC-4000) 500MHz DDR SDRAM
Latency: 3-4-4-8

for some wierd reason, these 2 are cheaper than the PC3500 Kingston ones. Geil kit is $40 cheaper than the Corsair.

Well, these are basically what's available in the computer superstore here. I'd appreciate it if you guys could suggest (depending on the RAM speed i'll be getting) a dual channel kit.

Thanks.

cheers!
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SS Joe
2004-08-09T00:43:39Z
I'm no expert at Intel chips and overclocking with them, but i'd go with some quality PC3700/PC4000 with the latency timings possible. From what i've been noticing, rams with low latency timings tend to OC really well when you raise the timings and up the voltage, but I wouldn't go with any PC3200/PC3500. As for raising your CPU Speed with the new ram, that's still kinda upto your CPU and how well the temperatures are. Most P4C CPU's i've seen on here can do 3.2GHz with propper air cooling, and going much higher with Water cooling.

^That's about as much advice as I personally can give, sorry.
StukaSt1
2004-08-09T01:38:44Z
The price differences are because of the low timings on the PC3500 kit, for a p4 system I would recommend any of the PC4000 though Corsair has a better reputation than Geil
ramian
  •  ramian
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2004-08-09T11:41:01Z
Hi,
thanks for all your replies...
about temps...
presently, at my current overclock, (@3.0Ghz) idle temps is 27C. I haven't really tried it at max load since I added the side case fans so I don't know much about temp under max load. I've tried incresing the overclock to 3.12Ghz (which is the max it will go before it starts failing Prime95 benchmarks). At 3.12, temps are around 32-35C idle. It's still stable in Windows beyond 3.2Ghz, but I'm not gonna risk it.

Looking at my motherboard specifications...
http://www.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Products/Products_GA-8IPE1000%20Pro2.htm
the site says my motherboard can support DDR400 (PC3200) and not PC3700 or PC4000. What are the chances of my motherboard being able to support the Corsair PC4000 RAM modules?

thanks!
Jordan
  •  Jordan
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2004-08-09T11:46:58Z
The RAM will work fine I'm sure. PC3200 is the official supported speed and when you put in your PC4000 or whatever RAM it will only be recognised as PC3200, you will have to overclock it to get it to it's preper speeds. The Same thing happens with my PC3200 supported board and the PC3500.
ramian
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2004-08-09T11:53:31Z
sorry, i'm confused...
what you mean is that when I put in the PC4000 RAM modules, it will be recognized as PC3200 and will run "underclocked". I will have to increase the bus speed in the bios to bring it up to its default speed for PC4000 before I can actually overclock it.

^ is this right?
Jordan
  •  Jordan
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2004-08-09T12:22:29Z
Yes you will need to take the FSB really high before you even start to OC that RAM but it means you will be running on a 1:1 ratio right up to (and probabaly a little past) 250Mhz on the tightest timings
Kindred
2004-08-09T13:16:27Z
Why does your memory run at 186MHz with a CPU FSB of 923? Shouldn't it be at 230? If my math is right then your CPU FSB will raise to 923 from 800 with a 400MHz overclock to 3.0GHz. That means your PC3200 memory at 400MHz should rise to 460MHz respectfully. If this is all true then your best option would be the Kingston PC4000 DDR500. If you keep the current CPU overclock, then the Kingston 500MHz ram will run at 460MHz. You could tighten the timings for a performane increase.
Jordan
  •  Jordan
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2004-08-09T14:01:23Z
No he has the RAM devider set lower so he can run the CPU faster without the RAM being the bottleneck. It's pretty unlikely that RAM would be able to hit 230MHz even with extra voltage so you change the devider. I don't see the point of lowering the FSB though, Ide rather keep 1:1 but this new RAM will solve that.
ramian
  •  ramian
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2004-08-10T11:17:08Z
Thanks for all your replies...

quote:

Originally posted by: Jordan
Yes you will need to take the FSB really high before you even start to OC that RAM but it means you will be running on a 1:1 ratio right up to (and probabaly a little past) 250Mhz on the tightest timings


So, this is a good thing right? If I'm able to hit 250Mhz with increasing the RAM voltages with the new RAM, I should be able to hit 3.2Ghz. That is, if I keep the divider as 1:1 right? What am I really sacrificing if I have it at 5:4?

Also, at stock FSB, will the PC4000 RAM perform better than my present PC3200 modules given similar or tighter timings... my present timings are in my sig.

Another things about RAM timings. The Corsair Twin-X1024 modules are rated at 3-4-4-8 while the Kingston HyperX are at 2-3-3-7. The Geil Ultra Platinums are at 2.5-4-4-7.
So, between these 3, the Kingston's have the tightest timings and hence are the best? But why do the supposedly "better" Corsair modules have such low timings? Their DDR2 modules have even "worse" timings of 4-4-4-12... it doesn't make sense to me... or am I seeing it wrongly?

So, for my case, among the 3 options mentioned, are the Kingston HyperX modules are the best option?

Thanks!
Jordan
  •  Jordan
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2004-08-10T13:18:25Z
Whatever RAm has tighter timmings will perform a little better running at the same speeds.

Who said Corsair was better? They make very different RAM modules with different performance and timmings for different needs. On this occasion I would recommend going with the Kigngston but it depends on the price. DDR2 has to have loose timings to hit those speeds, it's just a new technology.

Don't be thinking you will hit 3.2GHz, there's no gurantee, that's a 600MHz OC over stock and that's a 1000Mhz resultant FSB! Your board simply may not be able to handle it.
ramian
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2004-08-10T20:27:11Z
thanks....
so, it's settled then. I'll be getting the Kingston HyperX modules within the next couple of days. Will report back here then.
Thanks for all your advice so far...

cheers!
ramian
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2004-08-11T05:22:47Z
I made a trip down to the computer storesuperstore and...
They don't carry PC4000 Kingston HyperX with CL less than 3. In fact, the guy there mentioned that Kingston doesn't make PC4000 HyperX with CL other than 3. He said the Kingston HyperX with CL2 as listed on the webpage was probably a typo. So, that brings me back to my original question...

Which should I get? Or does it really matter? As long as I get one of the 3 'big" brands (Kingston, Geil, Corsair), I should be getting more or less the same quality, performance, reliability, etc... right? At the moment, I'm thinking of going for the one with the best latency and probably a BH5 chip instead of a CH5.

Also, why is it that all the higher end RAM modules (PC3700, PC4000) have CL 3 instead of 2 like my PC3200 modules? Is it because they will become unstable with tighter timings or is it because the architecture prevents it?

thanks!
Jordan
  •  Jordan
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2004-08-11T09:06:12Z
Sounds about rifght. Iv'e never hard of such highly clocked RAM as PC4000 with CL2 timmings. It is just very difficult to have tight timmings and high clock speeds so it's usually one or the other or a trade off. Go for the Geil stuff.
ramian
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2004-08-11T11:40:43Z
hi,
thanks for your reply...
I just want to know why you chose Geil over Corsair and Kingston? Is it any better than the other 2 brands?

Does anyone else have any recommendations?

Thanks!
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